Seafaring programmers, what could go wrong?
just before lunchtime on Friday, the 29th of April 2005 by Variable
Fark had a link to an article today about how a company called SeaCode is about to outsource jobs. While this doesn’t seem fantastical any longer, you’ll be amazed to realize that they will be outsourcing the jobs to foreign programmers on a 600 cabin cruise ship anchored 3 miles of the coast of El Segundo (Southern California) to take advantage of loopholes in the law that will allow the company to pay a competitive salary of ~$21k/year. Supposedly being on a ship will make one work more diligently. David Cook, co-founder of SeaCode states, and I QUOTE, “Try to get American software engineers to work at night.”
We’re all pirates here right? I see some booty worth plundering… arrrrrrr! I’ll happily watch this guy walk the plank…
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May 2nd, 2005 at 4:48 pm
Before I got “laid off” I was a systems analyst/programmer with over 20 years experience. I would work day, night, weekends - whatever the job required. Damn near every other programmer I ever worked with was the same - it really wasn’t the money as much as it was the love of the job.
I know how silly that sounds, but honestly, I’d said for years that they were paying me to play.
May 2nd, 2005 at 11:04 pm
Exactly.. when I work on a project I enjoy, I’ll work day and night to see it through. Ultimately, I feel bad for these programmers. They are being taken advantage of.
June 18th, 2005 at 9:30 am
I thought slavery would be over by now…I still cannot believe how SeaCode it is allowed to do this, and I cannot believe what the CEO and founders have to say about it. And let’s not even mention the fact that people are willing to live in a bota to work on a factory ship.
Geez, I am 23, and when I was 20 I thought the career I was choosing had a bit more status than this.
I hate the fact that people are willing to work in such conditions because they lower down the standards for the rest of us who love the profession but are not willing to go to such levels.
There, said it.
Clauz
June 19th, 2005 at 6:31 pm
Hi Claudia.. slavery is a GREAT way to put it. If I were a programmer working for SeaCode, David Cook’s comments would disgust me. Hell, they disgust me and I’m not even working there. Although, I must say, these programmers aren’t necessarily lowering their standards, and they may actually be making more than they could have made in their home country, but it still impacts the rest of the industry. SeaCode is lowering the standard, not the programmers.
I don’t know what the status is of their project, but I noticed today that their website is no longer available. We can only hope the venture collapsed.
Maybe business is better in Buenos Aires.. Is Cricava hiring? LOL
June 19th, 2005 at 9:24 pm
Oh, you’re just saying that because you visited her site and saw she’s pretty cute!
June 20th, 2005 at 10:44 am
Dude, I have enough women issues in my life right now.. at least my code doesn’t give me the cold-shoulder when I’ve executed an illegal operation or encountered an unhandled exception.
<stroking flat screen>That’s right baby, you know who loves you</stroking flat screen>… FATAL ERROR… WTF?
LMAO
June 20th, 2005 at 11:38 pm
Damn….I wrote a lot and somehow I did not press submit and refreshed the page or sth….
Anyway, since I do not see my comment posted although I swear I remember pressing the button down there…I will repeat the message.. (…geez..I am 23 and I am already showing Alzheimer symptoms?…the programming is killing me definitely)
Yes, SeaCode is the one lowering the standards, but if they were not programmers available out there who would take such an offer, SeaCode would not be there at all…right? So, I am the kind of person who believes people should think a lot about their actions and their impact on society…I do not want a bunch of people agreeing to work in a factory ship, so then in a couple of months it looks like it is completely ok and normal for a group of greedy idiots (notice how I am watching my language here) to open up company -that by the way is tax kiniving- to make people work like that…and make it look like it is the best thing since cheesecake…because then…more greedy idiots will follow and we end up in a non-stop vicious loop, which I pray that at some point it will throw a fatal error to the standard output so we can all get over with it and learn the lesson…
And related to this….read this: http://www.cricava.com/blogs/index.php?blog=6, a very funny letter from my friend Mariano to the people of SeaCode with some refreshing ideas for their marketing campaign.. :P
Anyway, I noticed like you said that SeaCode is down…We are powerful people indeed :)
Greetings to you all
Clauz
PS: Flattered by your comment Chad!
PS2: If you see two comments wirtten by me, one after the other who happen to be similar in content and meaning, it is because I am a moron…if not, I can assure you my second message is more “waffly” than the original one that was not posted after all…(they say second versions are never the same)
PS3: the preview comment in real time is very cool…
June 21st, 2005 at 2:09 am
Ok, I have a correction. As Claudia’s friend notes, the URL is http://www.sea-code.com, and is, in fact, still operational.
Anyways, I still can’t place even a portion of the blame on the individual programmers for lowering standards. We cannot expect every industry to pay the same wages for the same type of work the world over. That would mean an Iraqi programmer would make $80k/year. California wouldn’t be innundated with migrant workers from Mexico. That’s not how the world market operates. Supply and demand, and healthy competition. These programmers are coming from countries where $20k/year is HUGE. Well below your and my salary expectations, it is still better than they would make at home. However, I’m definitely not justifying SeaCode’s venture.
June 21st, 2005 at 9:45 am
You are right about the address….I made the same mistake..
I do not agree…In my country 20k an year is a HUGE salary…something a senior manager would make in a medium to large company, and you live amazingly with that…and I am still not getting into a factory boat, not because I do not like working..actually I work my a** off like hell..and I do not think the main issue is the salary…it is the speech they use to present the whole idea…it is not a salary issue really.
Plus, like i said before, I am sure they are a tax kiniving company paying low salaries compared to what they earn…something that I am really against of…
PS: Anyway, I believe this is a healthy debate :)
June 21st, 2005 at 11:08 pm
I’ve been outsourced a few times myself. You know the drill, train your replacement, have a somber lunch with everyone at TGI Fridays, then back to your desk with a cardboard box. You just pick up and start fresh with something new.
But seacode, well, that seems just like cheating to me. You’ve got a boat that will essentially leech off of California for things like medical care, supplies, and emergencies.
All the benefits of being “in the US” without paying the crippling California tax rate and having to deal with the ridiculous laws. Ummm… whats the downside again?
June 22nd, 2005 at 11:24 am
I just think it is WRONG.
And I will answer back some of the statements they make:
–> SeaCode brings already offshored jobs back to the U.S…most desirable combination of American engineering talent and reduced blended cost.
Lie! The programmers are still foreigners, not american! ..They may have people in the HQ, but for every American in the HQ there must be 300 foreigners in the ship..so I do not think that makes the difference.
Plus being in the water makes them avoid taxes…so the only thing that returns, is some % they will expend in buying supplies…IF they get it from the US, which seems unlikely…you can get tons of supplies from other factory ships (chinese ones for example) at much lower prices that the ones in the coast just a few miles away.
–> Long costly trips to dangerous distant-shore locations are a thing of the past.
It makes it look like the programmers come from the jungle! Dangerous locations…Please Chad and everyone who will be reading this…do not feel insulted by my following comment…but who can really state that after what happened it is safe to be floating a few miles away from the shore? I am saying this, cos unless you go and live in the top of a mountain in Tibet, there is no such thing as a safe location these days.
Plus considering the fact that they mention that the programmers come from dangerous locations, has anyone considered regarding safety the fact that the ship is awfully near the coast full of foreigners that do not require to have a visa?
And they say you get the best of BOTH worlds…again a lie…it is not hybrid sourcing because the foreigners are closer to you..it is outsourcing in a ship. Period.
I am tired of people manipulating words to make things look different.
Greetings,
Clauz
June 22nd, 2005 at 12:59 pm
Agreed. However you look at it, it’s still a poor idea. They state that 90% of the money spent on programming projects will stay in America. I find this hard to imagine. Chances are, profits made by the programmers will be sent back to their countries of origin. We see that today with Mexican migrant workers in California… and they’re on dry land! That’s not to say they shouldn’t and it’s immoral, but it’s an incorrect assumption without any hard evidence to support the claim.
June 23rd, 2005 at 11:57 am
Clauz- So you hate marketing “people” too huh? Thats all marketing is, lying to everyone to get them to spend money.
But you are right, they are just playing on everyone’s fears to make money by saying “ooooh… go offshore and you’ll be killed or worse!”
But you know what, keep posting great comments like this and I’ll give you an account here on Pirate-King to post stuff on the front page!
Chad
June 23rd, 2005 at 3:00 pm
Wow….I would be honored…I will do my homework then :)
And about marketing…yes..I hate media manipulation…amazing that we live in a world where companies have entire departaments where people get paid to lie to the public. These must be the same people that when they get to their homes they tell their own kids that lying is a very very bad thing to do, and the ones that get angry when a politician is caught lying, wondering where is this degenerating world going to…
Basically that tells you that lying is only allowed within the so called marketing scope? I guess they dont want competition. :P
Greetings Chad!
Clauz